Aug '20 *
With the US election on the horizon I figured it would be nice to have a place for CIVIL political discord. That being said feel free to drag your third world non-american politics into the mix as well
Oct '20
First of all not to piss of the Trump supporters, it's just the image I get from the news sources I have gotten as an non-American.
To be honest if I were an American I wouldn't really trust Trump at all. I mean can you say with a straight face he took the covid virus seriously right away? And now that he got it himself and got 'better' pretty quickly one does wonder if it was that serious.
I mean it's the constant first denying and changing his opinion with the wind that it's hard to take him seriously. Those who go against him are automatically liars. I mean this feels like kill the messenger tactic like they did in the Middle Ages when bad news came not to panic the people. But that just comes back like a boomerang. Facts are no country has more deaths because of the virus than the USA. Of course that's mainly due to people not following the advise of experts (wearing mask, keeping distance etc) but had Trump taken it serious earlier it could have been (a lot) less. I also don't believe he unites the Americans (but I guess neither would the democrats) with the black people against the police riots where it seemed he was just throwing some more oil on the fire. But any news that puts Trump into a negative light he calls fake.
All of this put together it reeks of dictatorship that's the image a lot of people outside the USA get. For Trump it's just a big (TV) show with himself as director and ultimate hero. Is there an independent channel which can put him into a better light, I don't think so. The current ones are again black and white.
Again that is just the image I have formed over 4 years by hopefully independent sources. No president seems to have gotten so much criticism in and outside the USA and most of it is negative.
Just my 2 cents. I have no desire to discuss any further.
To be honest if I were an American I wouldn't really trust Trump at all. I mean can you say with a straight face he took the covid virus seriously right away? And now that he got it himself and got 'better' pretty quickly one does wonder if it was that serious.
I mean it's the constant first denying and changing his opinion with the wind that it's hard to take him seriously. Those who go against him are automatically liars. I mean this feels like kill the messenger tactic like they did in the Middle Ages when bad news came not to panic the people. But that just comes back like a boomerang. Facts are no country has more deaths because of the virus than the USA. Of course that's mainly due to people not following the advise of experts (wearing mask, keeping distance etc) but had Trump taken it serious earlier it could have been (a lot) less. I also don't believe he unites the Americans (but I guess neither would the democrats) with the black people against the police riots where it seemed he was just throwing some more oil on the fire. But any news that puts Trump into a negative light he calls fake.
All of this put together it reeks of dictatorship that's the image a lot of people outside the USA get. For Trump it's just a big (TV) show with himself as director and ultimate hero. Is there an independent channel which can put him into a better light, I don't think so. The current ones are again black and white.
Again that is just the image I have formed over 4 years by hopefully independent sources. No president seems to have gotten so much criticism in and outside the USA and most of it is negative.
Just my 2 cents. I have no desire to discuss any further.
Oct '20
The "news" that makes you feel this way is completely doctored bullshit that's constantly perpetuated by his opposition to put him in a bad light. Notice how none of the news you hear has anything to do with his policies? That's because they want to distract you from what he's actually doing by making you focus on the garbage.
Personally, I think covid is overhyped. Not to say that I know a lot of people, but I've never met anyone who's had it in all these months of it being a dire crisis, and nearly everyone I see in public doesn't understand how to wear their mask properly or at all.
The BLM movement is a tactic pushed by the left, and it's always the big liberal cities that are destroying themselves. The footage of Floyd was deliberately cut to show him in a sympathetic light, but the full footage shows that he was extremely uncooperative and rambunctious, but the quotes and footage of these things are presented by dishonest media outlets to inspire outrage that they can blame on someone else.
For instance, one interview had footage of Trump saying something that others interpreted as him condoning white supremecy I believe it was. Of course, they didn't show the rest of the footage, which IMMEDIATELY after they cut off had him say something along the lines of "Now let me make this clear, I absolutely do NOT condone white supremecy!"
You never hear the full story from the media in the U.S., and that's why people are constantly getting the wrong impression. The truth is out there. People just ignore it.
Personally, I think covid is overhyped. Not to say that I know a lot of people, but I've never met anyone who's had it in all these months of it being a dire crisis, and nearly everyone I see in public doesn't understand how to wear their mask properly or at all.
The BLM movement is a tactic pushed by the left, and it's always the big liberal cities that are destroying themselves. The footage of Floyd was deliberately cut to show him in a sympathetic light, but the full footage shows that he was extremely uncooperative and rambunctious, but the quotes and footage of these things are presented by dishonest media outlets to inspire outrage that they can blame on someone else.
For instance, one interview had footage of Trump saying something that others interpreted as him condoning white supremecy I believe it was. Of course, they didn't show the rest of the footage, which IMMEDIATELY after they cut off had him say something along the lines of "Now let me make this clear, I absolutely do NOT condone white supremecy!"
You never hear the full story from the media in the U.S., and that's why people are constantly getting the wrong impression. The truth is out there. People just ignore it.
Oct '20 *
Yeah except he refuses to condemn white supremecy. We don't need doctored footage to know that. It happened on live TV in front of millions of Americans and people around the world. One minute he's heard of the Proud Boys, the next minute he hasn't. Funny that. That's evidence of bullshit straight from Trump himself. And that's not the first time he's said one thing and then another. Maybe he is actually more senile than Biden...
Yeah there is nothing "doctored" about the footage we see of him in the UK or the rest of the world (except maybe China). It's all there for everyone to see, plain and clear. The news we hear and read about has nothing to do with his home policies because America's home politicies are not really relevant to us here in the UK, in the same way that UK policies are of little or no interest to news outlets or American people over there. We hear about the things that are important to the rest of the world, like his refusal to acknowledge climate change and his "science doesn't really know does it but Trump does" rhetoric. He's a laughing stock around the world. I don't know any non-American personally who doesn't think that.
And yeah of course Covid is "over-hyped". Forget the 210,000+ Americans who have died from it. If Trump says it's nothing to worry about, then surely it's nothing to worry about. Tell that to the families of those who have suffered and died...
As I was saying to Troma, here is what will most likely happen during and after the Election. Biden will win. Trump will throw his toys out the pram and claim fraud / unfair voting and incite riots up and down the country. America will descend into further chaos. He's a megalomaniac and will do anything to hold onto power.
Yeah there is nothing "doctored" about the footage we see of him in the UK or the rest of the world (except maybe China). It's all there for everyone to see, plain and clear. The news we hear and read about has nothing to do with his home policies because America's home politicies are not really relevant to us here in the UK, in the same way that UK policies are of little or no interest to news outlets or American people over there. We hear about the things that are important to the rest of the world, like his refusal to acknowledge climate change and his "science doesn't really know does it but Trump does" rhetoric. He's a laughing stock around the world. I don't know any non-American personally who doesn't think that.
And yeah of course Covid is "over-hyped". Forget the 210,000+ Americans who have died from it. If Trump says it's nothing to worry about, then surely it's nothing to worry about. Tell that to the families of those who have suffered and died...
As I was saying to Troma, here is what will most likely happen during and after the Election. Biden will win. Trump will throw his toys out the pram and claim fraud / unfair voting and incite riots up and down the country. America will descend into further chaos. He's a megalomaniac and will do anything to hold onto power.
Oct '20
Despite this DIRECT QUOTE from YEARS AGO, you know that some people will still claim that he hasn't condemned white supremacy. Like I said, the truth is there, and people will ignore it.
Oct '20
OK he just doesn't want to do it again when directly asked to, and during an important campaign debate. Fair enough...
Oct '20
He's probably just annoyed that him saying something isn't enough for people to believe that he's said it. Let me ask you a question markus. Do you condemn white supremacy?
Oct '20
He's done it several times, including during the debate, but even if he only did it once, who cares? Why is that not enough? Why was he asked to do it to begin with? Because someone on CNN said "I'll bet he wont" in order to give the impression that he had a history of racism? They won't even show him saying it after the fact. And these are supposed to be journalists? Sounds like a bunch of scumbag activists with an agenda.
They'll just keep saying "I'll bet he wont" or "I'll bet he won't again". But the point is, they insisted he never said it, but he did. They lied and now you know they lie. But all you seem concerned with is that he hasn't denounced white supremacy enough times. At least that's the impression I get.
What happens after he says it enough times? Will the Liberal-controlled media admit they were "wrong" and tell everyone they're allowed to stop hating him, now? No, they'll just ignore it and move on to something else, once again, without offering proof. And the people who already hate him will take their word for it because it'll be what they want to hear.
They'll just keep saying "I'll bet he wont" or "I'll bet he won't again". But the point is, they insisted he never said it, but he did. They lied and now you know they lie. But all you seem concerned with is that he hasn't denounced white supremacy enough times. At least that's the impression I get.
What happens after he says it enough times? Will the Liberal-controlled media admit they were "wrong" and tell everyone they're allowed to stop hating him, now? No, they'll just ignore it and move on to something else, once again, without offering proof. And the people who already hate him will take their word for it because it'll be what they want to hear.
Oct '20
I guess most people missed him doing it during the debate. Maybe with all the talking over each other, and constant interruptions, it was hard to make it out.
Maybe when he said "Stand back and Stand by", he meant to say "Stand back and Stand down" and it just came out wrong. But it sounded to me like he was telling them to "stand by" because... "somebody's got to do something about Antifa and the left"... Doesn't sound like condemnation to me and it turns out the Proud Boys felt exulted by his comments anyway.
You're right, he doesn't need to keep doing it if he has done it enough times already. But the point is is that during this first important debate in the run up to the Election, in front of the American people and the rest of the world, I think this was the right moment to do it and the right time to totally put it to bed. But he didn't... he just opted for causing more controversy.
Maybe when he said "Stand back and Stand by", he meant to say "Stand back and Stand down" and it just came out wrong. But it sounded to me like he was telling them to "stand by" because... "somebody's got to do something about Antifa and the left"... Doesn't sound like condemnation to me and it turns out the Proud Boys felt exulted by his comments anyway.
You're right, he doesn't need to keep doing it if he has done it enough times already. But the point is is that during this first important debate in the run up to the Election, in front of the American people and the rest of the world, I think this was the right moment to do it and the right time to totally put it to bed. But he didn't... he just opted for causing more controversy.
Oct '20 *
Yeah, when asked if he condemns white supremacy, Trump said "sure", which, considering everything, was definitely a weak response and a missed opportunity. Not the only one either. He should have slowed it down a little and just let grampa tell his lies and/or show off his dementia.
And I don't get his Proud Boys comment either. Not so sure they're white supremacists since they have many non-white members. I guess they're dicks, though...? At least Trump admitted they exist. Biden basically implied Antifa doesn't exist, calling them "just an idea". That was weird.
And I don't get his Proud Boys comment either. Not so sure they're white supremacists since they have many non-white members. I guess they're dicks, though...? At least Trump admitted they exist. Biden basically implied Antifa doesn't exist, calling them "just an idea". That was weird.
Oct '20 *
Well until you got someone in your family or friends who actually got it or worse dies from it. The husband of a cousin of mine was really hit hard by it and though officially cured he is still feeling bad consequences. Now you are just using the tactic I described earlier. I don't know anyone who has the virus or got really sick or died, so it's far away from me so it doesn't exist or is overhyped. And 'ignoring' the facts that the USA is the worst pupil of the world there. I mean you sound pretty indoctrinated if I hear you speak now.
But let's keep it at this, again politics are a killer of joy. Time for another horror movie...
Personally, I think covid is overhyped. Not to say that I know a lot of people, but I've never met anyone who's had it in all these months of it being a dire crisis, and nearly everyone I see in public doesn't understand how to wear their mask properly or at all.
Well until you got someone in your family or friends who actually got it or worse dies from it. The husband of a cousin of mine was really hit hard by it and though officially cured he is still feeling bad consequences. Now you are just using the tactic I described earlier. I don't know anyone who has the virus or got really sick or died, so it's far away from me so it doesn't exist or is overhyped. And 'ignoring' the facts that the USA is the worst pupil of the world there. I mean you sound pretty indoctrinated if I hear you speak now.
But let's keep it at this, again politics are a killer of joy. Time for another horror movie...
Oct '20
Indoctrinated, huh? I wonder how that would happen when most everybody I associate with are anti-Trumpers. Shouldn't that put me on the other side?
Oct '20
Well maybe not indoctrinated but you saying covid is overhyped that's exactly what your president already said. That's honestly rather scary if you start to sound like him or use arguments that sound more like oh well we hate the opposition so Trump wins by default and we defend him no matter what happens. I just wonder what would you have said if Hilary had been president and she would have done well but than the pandemic came and the same result like now. Would you have said her fault and that would never have happened had Trump been president?
For the rest I'm with markus. All the good things he does for the Americans that's nice but why would a non-American be interested in US national politics if it doesn't affect people outside the USA? You won't care about European politics either unless it would affect you. Can you name any international decision that puts him into positive light for the non-Americans? Sure there are non-Americans who like Trump or shall I say how he does politics. Some just love it because he doesn't seem to have a filter (big mouths are popular with some) but I have yet to come across a someone who says because he is a competent or intelligent person.
For the rest I'm with markus. All the good things he does for the Americans that's nice but why would a non-American be interested in US national politics if it doesn't affect people outside the USA? You won't care about European politics either unless it would affect you. Can you name any international decision that puts him into positive light for the non-Americans? Sure there are non-Americans who like Trump or shall I say how he does politics. Some just love it because he doesn't seem to have a filter (big mouths are popular with some) but I have yet to come across a someone who says because he is a competent or intelligent person.
Oct '20
If Hilary was president, I would be living in Canada. She couldn't give a straight answer for what her stance was on anything.
One country's politics shouldn't necessitate any other country. The problem in this situation is that Obama made us too dependent on other countries and would cave to anything they asked of him. We shouldn't be dependent on another country and other countries shouldn't be dependent on us. One of Trump's mottos was "America first", which meant to ween off of our dependency on trade with other countries. Sure, trade is a good thing, but it wasn't the best thing for our economy when we were giving a lot of jobs to other nations.
One country's politics shouldn't necessitate any other country. The problem in this situation is that Obama made us too dependent on other countries and would cave to anything they asked of him. We shouldn't be dependent on another country and other countries shouldn't be dependent on us. One of Trump's mottos was "America first", which meant to ween off of our dependency on trade with other countries. Sure, trade is a good thing, but it wasn't the best thing for our economy when we were giving a lot of jobs to other nations.
Oct '20
But it has been overhyped and I lost my best friend for 30 years in April. He got the Flu which turned to pneumonia and passed. They labeled it Covid-19 when they can't tell the difference between a common Corona virus cold, the flu or their Sars/Cov II strain through those bogus PVR tests that have a 90% false positive test rate. If you're under 60 years old you have a 99.7% chance of surviving a Covid 19 infection...that's not a pandemic. Welcome to Con-vid 1984.
Oct '20
Very sorry to hear that, Vince. There was a period in U.S. where everything was being labeled as a covid death, and it felt very contrived to me. I hope you have enough booze to get you through that loss.
Initially, I voted for Trump because Hilary was (still is) a truly despicable person, but over the last few years, Trump has done a lot of good for the country that the press willingly ignores in favor of bashing him every chance they can. The left has dedicated their entire strategy into demeaning the president at every opportunity that they completely forgot to pick worthwhile candidate.
Third parties tend to have better solutions than either primary party, but to vote for one is to throw your vote away, because American politics really are black and white.