VPiR, I agree with you about the fracking!!! But, I think you would revise your opinion about what scientists are saying, if you thought about this more. Scientists in other countries say we in trouble too, it's not just US scientists. Even the US scientists are not exactly making big bucks. If they wanted to make big money, they would just get on the payroll of the fossil fuel companies and lie their asses off. The people who do that make a solid living. But, real scientists who say what they think are just terrified, and crying out in the wilderness with no one paying attention. Cut and paste the following into the YouTube search bar, and just watch anything that comes up. kevin anderson climate "democracy now"

So I asked what you were basing your claims on and your response was, in part, just more claims...

wait, sorry, I didn't mean to ignore this thread. I had kind of a long day today, I was exhausted when i got home and just completely crashed. I am gonna try to get caught up on this thread, but, sorry if it doesn't happen tonight. But, just to say this quickly, if you go on Youtube and watch a few lectures and interviews with Lester Brown of the Worldwatch Institute, or Paul Ehrlich (yeah, THAT Paul Ehrlich, he's still alive), I think you'll see where I'm coming from.

the world's population will be reduced by several billion

It'd be too late to matter by then, but overpopulation is a main cause of climate change.

I totally agree with you on this. Overpopulation is the 800 pound gorilla in the room, no one can even mention it. Everyone can talk openly about vaginas, homosexuals, and all kinds of other previously taboo topics now, but if people talk about overpopluation... it's just a huge no-no.

Countries need to introduce and enforce some kind of 2 child policy. If any families want a third child, they must pay a large amount of money. China had it right. Perhaps even for a second child at some point.

Either that or some kind of euthanasia program is needed. Science fiction it may be (Logan's Run, The Island), but some kind of drastic action is needed before we wipe ourselves off the face of the planet, along with every other species in the process.. except rats, and flies.

This reminds me of the movie What Happened to Monday. Not the best idea. Look at the issues caused by China's one child policy and the high rate of female infanticide. Is it really worth saving our species if we lose our humanity in the process? Developing countries are the most problematic in terms of overpopulation anyways. How effectively can they enforce those policies were they to put them into place?

I think we should always make as massive an attempt as possible to answer the question "Is it really worth saving our species?" with the answer "oh yah, you betcha."

I would hate to be you man.

Me too. I think about this stuff every day.

Why? You come across as a bit paranoid.

I deleted my comment here, it was too negative and distracting.

Did you ever take steps to try and fix things? (Complaining on the internet doesn't count)

I used to do a lot of campaigning about environmental issues for Jill Stein, before she was running for president. She wasn't running for any office at all, she was trying to pass a bill called the Secure Green Future for Massachuetts. I used to stand out in all kinds of weather at busy intersections, asking people to sign petitions. Also, I helped start a local community garden, and volunteered at... well, not at another community garden, but a pretty similar type of place, called a CSA. I walk and bike a lot, and haven't owned a car in years. I relaize that for most people, having a car is an absolute necessity, and there's just no way around it. But, where I live, there are lots of trolleys and buses I can take.... I've done other stuff over the years, but I know it won't make much difference.

So anyways, I do what I can, but it's basically impossible to do enough to make a difference.

In a couple weeks I'm gonna fly across the country for the second time in four months, which is just horrendous for the environment. But, when I try to say "no, I can't go," someone in my family will just make me do it anyway, and everyone will look at me like I'm mentally ill because I tried to do what I think is right. Aaaarrrrggghhhh..

Jill Stein... we probably should stop there.

Ah, that's the solution huh? You can't do x because it is bad, BUT if you give the government money it's ok. That's mafia style extortion. I don't get your fears. If you are afraid that overpopulation will lead to a decrease in population then it seems to me the planet has a way of working these things out.

Whether you agree with such solutions or not, overpopulation is still a problem. Something needs to be done. Enforcing a one or two child policy is one of the more humane options.

If you are afraid that overpopulation will lead to a decrease in population then it seems to me the planet has a way of working these things out.

So you'd prefer the planet forcefully sort out the problem after we fuck it up to a breaking point? In that case, we might as well just speed things along and have a nuclear war.

No I just think euthenasia of young children or forced abortions is still killing of people. The difference between letting the planet run its course and a nuclear war is that one results in a drastic amount of radiation.

How about sterilization then? Voluntary sterilization in exchange for money.

I see that as a better option, but I also see it leading to other problems. What happens when someone changes their mind, or a group of people feel taken advantage of and organize. It could lead to massive social unrest. Maybe a better trade of, but there is something dehumanizing about steralization. I also see it being something that the weakest of society takes advantage of and could turn... racist? Or at least be painted as such.